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Post by BlackMagister on Jan 4, 2010 13:47:44 GMT -5
Well you never explain how to deal with shear. Just by reading your guide it would seem like the person would just stand there thinking shear is not difficult to deal with and get trapped by a few sheared creeps. Shear does wear off but it can be recast. Also one shear most likely won't kill the Arcane but it can remove salve and force her to move out.
I also would advise a little bit differently for using Frost Scythe and say to manually target the creeps with full health (always have show health bars on, for all characters) and let her normal attack and Targeted Magic finish them off.
On playing her like a support and putting a priority on Ethereal shield I say that maxing out her frost spells pretty much achieves the same thing. Frost Scythe and Nova damages enemies and either stuns or frosts them. Then simply recast Ethereal shield when cd is done or on harder waves.
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Post by Cheezeman on Jan 4, 2010 19:30:05 GMT -5
Well you never explain how to deal with shear. Just by reading your guide it would seem like the person would just stand there thinking shear is not difficult to deal with and get trapped by a few sheared creeps. Shear does wear off but it can be recast. Also one shear most likely won't kill the Arcane but it can remove salve and force her to move out. How is that even possible...? It would require at least 3 creeps around her (when cornered) to count as surrounded, and they must be constantly sheared because she can still immobalize them with the schyte and wait out the shear. And how would anyone have creeps come that far? Uthmors are counterable, and early game creeps die fast. Shears are easy to deal with and only a fool would actually get surrounded by crabs. I also would advise a little bit differently for using Frost Scythe and say to manually target the creeps with full health (always have show health bars on, for all characters) and let her normal attack and Targeted Magic finish them off. I did that (if you're talking about specifically adding that you manually target creeps then I will add, but it was insinuated) On playing her like a support and putting a priority on Ethereal shield I say that maxing out her frost spells pretty much achieves the same thing. Frost Scythe and Nova damages enemies and either stuns or frosts them. Then simply recast Ethereal shield when cd is done or on harder waves. My own experience says that frost schyte doesn't damage creeps nearly enough to be worth it, and leveling up schyte makes targeted magic a bit too random. Rather one weak schyte at your tank than two strong at the portal. Long lasting creep stuns are welcome, but the tank has even more use of the extra armor a few levels of ethereal shield provides.
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Post by BlackMagister on Jan 4, 2010 19:48:44 GMT -5
I haven't really been on the receiving end of sheared creeps recently so I was under the impression that Frost Scythe even manual could not target sheared creeps, but the patch note just says Targeted Magic so my bad.
For the Ethereal Shield vs Frost Scythe I'm still siding with Scythe, even if the extra range makes it a bit random which creeps are targeted through Targeted Magic it means those creeps won't be advancing to the tank for a while. Higher levels of Scythe also allows you to make mini creep walls.
Additionally you can kind of control which creeps are targeted by standing at the right range. If you stand near the tank it will be random as it will catch oncoming creeps too, but if you stand at the maximum range it will only catch creeps that Targeted Magic can reach. If that range only has creeps near the tank then it will only hit creeps near the tank.
Imo you have to worry more about not getting to level 10 and creep build up more than not having enough armor. You just need a decent amount of armor at the start. If you have to shield multiple targets than yes it would definitely be a better idea for higher levels of Ethereal Shield.
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Post by Cheezeman on Jan 5, 2010 7:50:37 GMT -5
Consider that if you level up schyte, which has a maximum range of 2500, you have to run waaay back if you want targeted magic to hit its targets densly, and this is only possible if you're still in the upper bottleneck (in the lower one you'll be targeting creeps all over the place). If you keep it at say level 4 TM will work more or less like a fist of stone, only a bit weaker (with the addition of being able to target single creeps around the tank, very useful on waves like moss mey).
And immobalizing creeps far from the tank will only mean that they'll advance in greater numbers later on, much like time lapse. That ain't too good either.
Heroes like Ahlen and Blood Dancer need the extra protection a few levels of ethereal shield provides. Much of its powers lies in the 25% (I think) melee creep slow, but consider that level 6 eth is worth as much as studded leather.
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Post by BlackMagister on Jan 5, 2010 15:19:05 GMT -5
Well if you level up Scythe to it's max you will still have a level 2 Ethereal Shield and if you level it up to it's max you should not lose the upper bottleneck anyways because of how ineffective Uthmor is. Yes the creeps advance in greater numbers because they do get stuck on the stunned creeps and the stunned creeps themselves are being held back, but then you just use FrostBite or Blizzard.
If you were to level up Ethereal Shield on other hand your tank is more likely to get surrounded and go after other heroes.
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marx
Junior Member
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Posts: 73
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Post by marx on Jan 6, 2010 1:59:49 GMT -5
Maxing scythe is now viable- eth shield was greatly nerfed, and scythe was greatly buffed.
Still depends on the team, but its much more viable than before.
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Post by worldtop on Jan 7, 2010 10:56:16 GMT -5
Well if you level up Scythe to it's max you will still have a level 2 Ethereal Shield and if you level it up to it's max you should not lose the upper bottleneck anyways because of how ineffective Uthmor is. Yes the creeps advance in greater numbers because they do get stuck on the stunned creeps and the stunned creeps themselves are being held back, but then you just use FrostBite or Blizzard. If you were to level up Ethereal Shield on other hand your tank is more likely to get surrounded and go after other heroes. hmm, very interesting point you have there... I am afraid it won't stand/have problem holding if you have thin melee wall but stacking bunch of ranged monsters behind the wall... However this doesn't happen very often... Just a thought
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Post by Cheezeman on Jan 8, 2010 4:07:28 GMT -5
Back on the schyte vs shield topic:
Frost schyte draws as much aggro as a normal attack, so if your team has killing power problems (pre-level10) it might be better to go shield since at level 4 it's permanent. Don't want a lot of creeps chasing Arcane before she gets boots now would we.
And yeah, shield has been nerfed and schyte has been buffed (checked changelog) so it's definitely better to max schyte than in 1.89, but not enough (at least for me). Well, every game is different and requires a different build. I'll think about adding a few more levels to schyte in some games to learn how much it benefits.
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Post by sackpuncher on Jan 9, 2010 1:09:49 GMT -5
You shouldn't have to worry about things chasing your arcane before she gets boots since she can solo the first 3-4 waves and by then, assuming your other 3 heroes can kill another lane, she's already 6 so nothing can really chase her much anyways.
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